Comments on: RFC: Library Dependencies https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/ Developer resources for the X-Plane flight simulator Tue, 17 Mar 2015 01:43:13 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.1 By: Ben Supnik https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10316 Tue, 17 Mar 2015 01:43:13 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10316 In reply to rcmarple.

A naive answer that doesn’t involve X-Plane tech would be:
– Authors list their dependent libraries in their scenery pack’s install instructions.
– Users look at that list when they install the scenery pack.
– Users can look in the library to see it’s version and get new ones.

That’s a lot of manual steps though. 🙁 The only thing my proposal will do is make the error message spell out that you should have done those things by hand. 🙁

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By: rcmarple https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10312 Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:52:45 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10312 Something needs to change with libraries – they are proliferating and there are times I wish for the good old days when the only library you needed to worry about was OpenSceneryX (and that changed a couple of times a decade). Now we have scores of them that seem to get updated almost daily. It annoys me that a missing facade or object can bring down the sim but I get Ben’s point that not to do this would encourage lazy authoring (ahem – I always put in the OpenScenery placeholders – I think?). I get the idea behind libraries, they add to the community and allow authors access to great objects and content. However, I can say is my setup crashes pretty much daily due to library issues and I don’t always manage to keep up with library updates – do pre-flight checks now include “check all libraries are up to date”? Some hit the update section on the org, others use flightsim, some authors go missing, then come back…
Glad it’s on your radar Ben.

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By: Ben Supnik https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10304 Sun, 15 Mar 2015 18:32:55 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10304 In reply to snagar.

I think we -have- to list all missing libraries on the first problem. Since we don’t know which art asset is from which library (an art asset might be from more than one) all we can do is collect all of the libraries in x-plane now, the dependencies registered with this scenery pack, and show the “missing” diff.

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By: snagar https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10302 Sun, 15 Mar 2015 14:04:12 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10302 Hi,
Here is a thought that might be part of the design and I might missed it.
If we have a scenery that uses 6 “custom libraries” but I’m missing 2 of them. Will the message include both of them or will it reject the scenery the moment an error was triggered (error = missing library/object).

My 2cents, display all missing libraries and then reject. As an end user I’ll highly appreciate it, since I won’t need to encounter the same error for the one I was not aware off.

Keep up the great work.
Saar

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By: Michel Zehnder https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10296 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 20:49:42 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10296 In reply to Ben Supnik.

I was thinking about a “third-party-installer” myself, with dependencies and everything. It would certainly help!

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By: Michel Zehnder https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10295 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 20:48:23 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10295 In reply to Ben Supnik.

Re: version, not sure… I usually like static names not changing at all for better identification.
Re: link: Could work. Point to LR, and then from LR point to the correct site. (kinda like a database – but let users “update” it?) I think the average user needs more help than “OpenSceneryX not found”

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By: Ben Supnik https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10293 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:53:16 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10293 In reply to myb.

Well, it _sort of_ solves the problem. 🙂

It converts the penalty for not having libraries from “I can’t run” to “I don’t see any 3-d stuff.”

The user -still- isn’t seeing the scenery pack -the way it was meant to be seen-. In fact, you could (perversely) argue that running with place-holders is worse: the user doesn’t realize he or she is missing a library, and just goes “that scenery is not very good.”

Cheers
Ben

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By: Ben Supnik https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10292 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:51:52 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10292 In reply to Jim Dalgleish.

The spec has the version number separate from the library so that we can identify the case where “we have this thing, but it’s not new enough”. This is necessary because otherwise:
– Each library has to introduce a new dependency name when it introduces new art assets.
– My library 3.0 thus has _3 names_.
– Thus when you use my library you pick up 3 dependencies.
– Thus when you run your pack without my library, you are missing “three things”: Ben’s lib 1.0, Ben’s lib 2.0, Ben’s lib 3.0.

And a user goes “oh noes, I can only find Ben’s lib 3.0 on the net, where do I get the old ones?”

By having the version separate, we can have a ‘greater than’ policy, and thus only Ben’s Lib 3.0 is written in.

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By: Ben Supnik https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10291 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:49:42 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10291 In reply to Xplaneblog.de.

I think serving people’s third party content definitely goes way beyond this proposal!

It does beg a question, however, whether in the long term that is a better solution…there aren’t -that many- common third party libraries; if X-plane could install them, it could resolve the situation. That’s a big jump though; right now X-Plane never installs third party content.

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By: Ben Supnik https:/2015/03/rfc-library-dependencies/#comment-10290 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 13:48:30 +0000 http://xplanedev.wpengine.com/?p=6204#comment-10290 In reply to Michel Zehnder.

Re: version number, I think the version number in the RFC is implicitly a minimum; if a library wants to make a ‘breaking’ change it needs to pick a new “dependency name”.
Re: link, I’ll think about that. If the library’s hosting moves, the URL might become counter-productive – an alternative is to have the error message go to a LR support web page that explains (in detail) how to find a library and common places to look.

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