Comments on: RFC: Separating Mesh and Overlay Scenery Packs

By: VogonZarniwoop

VogonZarniwoop — Sat, 30 Oct 2021 01:43:23 +0000

> So my first naive idea is to simply have two custom scenery folders

A variation of that to consider is the linux /etc/whatever.d approach: a single custom scenery folder, as today, but rather than scenery_packs.ini being a single file, it’s a directory of files in the current scenery_packs.ini format, read in numeric order. Something like so, analogous to say /etc/grub.d/*:

Custom Scenery/…all the sceneries, as today…
Custom Scenery/scenery_packs/10_airports.ini
Custom Scenery/scenery_packs/70_libraries.ini
Custom Scenery/scenery_packs/80_meshes.ini

That’s compatible with the ideas of automatic management (given a few standard files defined by LR), with user overrides (by adding a new file with appropriate numeric prefix), and simplified management by adding new sceneries to a known file rather than having to find the proper subsection of a single master file, which becomes a bit ill defined and difficult to do procedurally.

> a lot of file sniffing by X-Plane at startup

I’m all for sniffing minimization. I have an unhealthy number of ortho tiles and custom airports, so anything to improve startup time is good.

Also, thanks to the whole LR crew for all the work on XP12.

By: tomcat357

tomcat357 — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 20:00:51 +0000

Don’t know nothing bout Shakespeare, but after 50+ years of being a commercial captain I know the easiest way out of a jam is the simplest, and sometimes it’s the hardest to see

Again I post short version

I
1000 Version
SCENERY

SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/3D_people_library/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Arctic_Alert-Airport/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Caribbean_MBPV Turks&Caicos-YD_Design/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Caribbean_TVSV ET_Joshua_AP/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_ALTA_CYYC-CFXP-summer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_ALTA_CYYJ CFXP/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_ALTA_zPak_HEMS_Phase_1/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_BC_CZST BetiX_A/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_BC_Machmell-Fisheries-Camp-2.0-C4XP/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_NB_CYYT St. John’s-Intl-AP-JustAsia/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_NS_CYQY Doug_McCur_AP-AirfieldCanada/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_NU_CYRT Rankin_Inlet/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_ON_CYBW/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_ON_CYYZ Toronto_AP-Pearson_v1.6-summer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_QC_CYUL Montreal/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_CAN_YT_CYXC Cranbrook_1.0/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_Mexico_MMUN CanCun-FSimStudios/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_AK_19AK/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_AK_PATK Talkeetna_v1_10/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_AL_KMGM Montgomery_Reg_AP/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_CA_KTNP Twentynine Palms/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_CA_zPak_KNZY_KNRS_KNUC_KNFG Priviteer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_CA_zPak_ZZ SoCal_Airports-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_GA_KATL Hartsfield_Jackson_2.2_roads-NS/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_IA_KCID VS1.2/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_ME_KBHB A_Bar_Harbor-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_MI_KTTF/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_MI_KTTF addon_roads/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_MS_KGPT Gulfport_Biloxi_Int_1.1-NAPS/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_NY_KTEBv2-summer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_OH_KCVG Skyline_Simulations-A/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_OR_KPDX addon_Flightbeam/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_TN_KCHA Chatanooga_Lovell_Field_AP/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_WA_WA56 IsraelsFarm-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_WA_WA79 WalterSuttons-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_WA_zPak_KSEA_KBFI_RNT_PAE-DD_V1.1/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_WI_KGRB GreenBay/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_WY_KJAC Jackson_Hole1-Axonos/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_WY_KJAC Jackson_Hole2-Axonos/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NAm_USA_WY_KWYS Yellowstone-RE2019/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NPa_USA_HI_PHPA KAUAI_Port_Allen_AP_v1.0/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_NPa_USA_HI_PHTO HAWAII_Hilo_Intl_v3.0/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_SAm_Argentina_SAEZ Buenos_Aires/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_SAm_Brazil_SBSV Salvador_Inter_Airport_v2.0/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_SAm_Chile_SCSE La_Florida_AP_v1.3/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_SAm_Chile_SCTB Tobalaba_&_Santiago_City_v1.0/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_SAm_FrenchGuyane_SOOK Kourou_CentreSpatial/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_SAm_FrenchGuyane_zPak_SOXX_SOOG_SOOR_SOOS/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_World_zPak_ZZ_Global_Airports X-Plane/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaLoc_Caribbean Puerto_Rico Ship_Docks/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaLoc_NAm_CAN_ALTA Banff_CableWay/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaLoc_NAm_USA_WA_KAWO ARLINGTON-B/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaLoc_NAm_USA_WA_KAWO ARLINGTON-C/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaLoc_NAm_USA_WA_KAWO ARLINGTON-D/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaLoc_SAm_FrenchGuyane_SOOK Kourou_VilleEtPort/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_CA US_NoCal_TE_A_Custom-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_CA US_NoCal_TE_B_Overlay-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_CA US_SoCal_TE_A_Custom-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_CA US_SoCal_TE_B_Overlay-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_WA EXT_washington_lights/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_WA TE_A_Custom-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_WA TE_B_Overlay-Orbx/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_ZZ all-xTremeTrees/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_OvlaReg_NAm_USA_ZZ_w2xp Ortho4XP_Overlays/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_PhoLoc_NAm_CAN_BC_CZST_BetiX_B/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_PhoLoc_NAm_USA_CA_KHAF Ortho/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_PhoLoc_NAm_USA_NV_KLAS LasVegas-FlyTampa/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_PhoLoc_NAm_USA_OH_KCVG Skyline_Simulations-B/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerLoc_Caribbean_TFFJ Mesh-AWD/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerLoc_Caribbean_TNCM/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerLoc_NAm_USA_NC_KRDU Raleigh_Durham_Int/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerLoc_NAm_USA_NV_KLAS LasVegas-FlyTampa/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerLoc_SAm_Brazil_SBSV HD_1.0/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerReg_NAm_USA_CA C_NoCal_TE-Orbx-summer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerReg_NAm_USA_CA C_SoCal_TE-Orbx-summer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerReg_NAm_USA_FL C_Florida_TE-Orbx-summer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerReg_NAm_USA_OR C_Oregon_TE-Orbx-summer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerReg_NAm_USA_WA Washington_TE-Orbx-summer/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_TerReg_NPa_USA_HI Hawaii/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/AFL_LIBRARY/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/KSEA Demo-Library/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/OpenSceneryX/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_iBY_Library/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/Orbx_OrbxlibsXP/

By: Ben Supnik

Ben Supnik — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 19:34:40 +0000

In reply to tomcat357.

They certainly won’t read the post like it wasn’t meant to be.

“You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.”

By: tomcat357

tomcat357 — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 17:18:58 +0000

In reply to tomcat357. And there was only 500 lines :)

By: tomcat357

tomcat357 — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 17:15:47 +0000

In reply to Ben Supnik. Now nobody will get my point, but I hope you do

By: Ben Supnik

Ben Supnik — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 15:48:19 +0000

In reply to Tomcat357. Ha ha ha well played. I did cut out about 1000 lines of your comment though so everyone else wouldn't have to scroll past it to comment it.

By: Tomcat357

Tomcat357 — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 21:14:25 +0000

I knew this subject would come up eventually, you can spend a ton hours and a thousand lines of code and you wont get what you can get for free with some simple mandates,,and that all I got ta say bout that

I
1000 Version
SCENERY

SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/3D_people_library/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Arctic_Alert-Airport/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Arctic_BGHD Danmarkshavn/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Arctic_BGIN Innarsuit-HLPN/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Arctic_BGKQ Kullorsuaq/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Arctic_BGMO Moriusaq/
SCENERY_PACK Custom Scenery/_Apt_Arctic_BGNU Nuussuaq/

[edited]

By: EM

EM — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 16:47:28 +0000

Ben – I like the idea as the way I read it, it also paves the way for (later) localized mesh patching.

I’ve shared before that from the end-user perspective, combining both mesh and overlays in one “pack” causes chaos sometimes depending on who’s pack is on top so this adds flexibility on the authoring side and simplifies on the end-user side.

I think separating those out will also make the organization of scenery “cleaner”.

I like where this is going.

By: John McPherson

John McPherson — Wed, 27 Oct 2021 21:31:06 +0000

All I can say is please team up with the lovely people who make xOrganizer. Even if you don’t want to offer their functionality as standard – because a significant number of users may not need to structure lots of meshes, overlays, libraries, airports etc – their logic is superb. They understand both your (Laminar’s) hierarchy and the tendency of us users to throw all sorts at it.

I run XP11 with self-made orthos for the whole of Europe, lots of third party libraries, many gateway airports that I have updated in WED to reflect the huge amount of opportunistic re-alignment of apron layouts that has happened during the ‘down-time’ of Covid, x-Europe overlays from SimHeaven, various odd landmars and city buildings pulled off Setchup galley and more besides. xOrganiser keeps me neatly listed, and flags up my errors!

By: Peter

Peter — Wed, 27 Oct 2021 19:28:03 +0000

Thanks a lot Ben for looking into the scenery organization.

It definitely is a stumbling block especially for beginners, and I suspect many fly the stock XP for a while before taking the step and reading an hour or so through the doc or watching stuff on YouTube (at least that was the case for me).

From a pure user-experience point of view, all the scenery ordering should be completely automatic and transparent to the users.

One question is probably: if somebody has essentially all the scenery that exists, would there be more or less an order that would work? If so, then indeed the ordering could be done automatically and the fiddling with the scenery_packs.ini would not be needed any more.

I quite like the idea proposed by others here that the order is purely based on the directory names. LR could specify and document some prefixes or first characters for fine-grained alphabetical/numeric categories together with the properties of each category (as suggested above). That would make it simpler for scenery authors to select the right prefix/first letter/number.

In my case I have plenty of scenery symlinked from a separate disk which is not always mounted. XP then adapts the scenery_packs.ini, but when I launch XP the next time with the mounted disk, the scnerery_packs.ini is screwed up. I had to write a script to automatically fix the ini file. It would be great if for XP12 that would not be necessary any more.